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help? [06 Apr 2008|08:23pm]

[ mood | hopeful ]

Hi. I was wondering if anyone knew how to write "Namárië" in the elvish script. I want it tattooed for my mom who passed away but I keep finding different translations for it. Any help would be appreciated

edit: in which book was the poem Namárië in?

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Gold and Silver Trees... [27 Mar 2008|03:49pm]

[ mood | creative ]

OH I was surprised when I got the trees on Friday some are gold when they bloom and some silver. Yes it is true Silverleaf got an Arbor Day Foundation membership and the trees came last week so we will have golden and silver trees in the garden. makes me wonder if the Valar are guiding the planting of trees here.

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Hello... [31 Mar 2007|11:19am]

[ mood | bouncy ]

Hmmm... is anyone here?
And if so have you any ideas on how an Elven community would look if it was in the High Desert?
I've an acre of land to build on and have so many possibilities running through my head that it is confusing; so I though I'd check to see what others thought would be nice for an Elven Retreat.

Le Hannon.


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[02 Aug 2004|12:54pm]

Hello! I'm new to this community.

*revive* revive*

I love Tolkiens Elves and everything to do with them. I am about to paint my interpretation of Luthien, and if it turns out, I'll be sure to post a photo here. :)
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[26 Apr 2004|01:09am]

[ mood | awake ]

hello all. i'm a tolkien fan myself, though i'm quite young, and i'm very intrested in learning both Quenya and Sindarin. i was wondering, and this is also one of the main reasons i joined this community, if anyone could please teach me Quenya or sindarin. i've tried surfing around just looking for a good site that translates and, well, helps you learn the language. i've found some, yes, but i couldn't understand all the terms the professional liguists use. so, if you could please help me, i would dearly appreciate it.

-LLes out-

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[03 Dec 2003|09:49pm]

I would like to rejuvinate this community. Of late it has been falling prey to spam posts, which upsets me. Any ideas to contribute? (Also, check my post at high_elven for details about a program for my web site.)
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[31 Aug 2003|10:41am]

The Aliases of Fëanor

By Michael Keegan

Many fans of The Lord of the Rings have also read The Silmarillion, which makes them painfully familiar with the great deeds of Fëanor, the Noldo of Valinor and the greatest of the Elder Children. As important to the story as Fëanor is, Tolkien leaves many more things unsaid about his character and back-story than some fans would have liked.

To the linguists who devote their time to studying the languages of Tolkien's vast mythos, Fëanor's name is quite a curmudgeon etymologically. While it is his common name in all of the histories, it is neither Sindarin [Grey-elven] nor Quenya [High-elven]. Rather, it is an amalgam of the two languages, which seems like a blasphemous occurrence because of the deeds of the founders ofThe Grey Company, who have shamelessly blended these two largely incompatible languages to form a ridiculous 'pseudo-Elvish' they collectively refer to as 'Grey elven.' But I digress.

Despite the aforementioned bastardization of Tolkienian Linguistics, Tolkien was not attempting to blend Sindarin and Quenya with Fëanor's name. In fact, in attempting to translate his Quenya name, Fëanáro, Tolkien came up with a 'Sindarinized' form resulting in the name we recognize this elf by today. Many believe this to be his final name and use it freely in translating things into both Sindarin and Quenya. What we must remember is that while it seems a preferred usage in the English versions of the histories, Fëanor may not have been suitable in pure Sindarin or Quenya texts.

The pure Sindarin form of Fëanor was Faenor, and the name Fëanor ‘probably arose through scribal confusion, especially in documents written in Quenya, in which ea was frequent but ae did not normally occur’ [PoME 343]. Thus it is merely a question of which of the three versions should or can be used for complete accuracy in translation, scholarly study, etc. Fëanáro >> Fëanor >> Faenor is the basic etymology we are given to work with here, and it is complete, so in this respect it is possible to decide [though we really have no indication of Tolkien's preferences] which form should be used and in what situation. From the aforementioned quotation we can be led to believe two things: 1) Scholars were attempting to use the name Faenor in even Quenya texts, which may mean that he was known in Middle-Earth as Faenor. ‘The tongue of the Grey-elves was most spoken even by the Noldor, for they learned swiftly the speech of Beleriand’ and it seems that while Quenya was used in the households of the Noldorin Princes, Sindarin became the language most Elves knew, and it makes sense for Fëanor to have a Sindarin name. 2) The etymology could in fact be Fëanáro >> Faenor >> Fëanor because of scholarly error in translations.

Whether Sindarin and Quenya names should be limited to Sindarin and Quenya translations respectively cannot be determined with any great accuracy, though it seems that Faenor was used even in Quenya texts in Beleriand. Perhaps it was that those in Valinor recognized him as Fëanáro, and those of Beleriand as Faenor; and so, language did not matter as much as the location. Many argue that this is an odd way of looking at it, but there is no indication in canonical work which indicates that any other arguments are true. It has often been observed that many of the sons of Fëanor also had mere 'Sindarinized' names in Middle-Earth, as Tolkien often could not find suitable equivalents in Sindarin. However, I have seen no translations concerning the usage of the name 'Fëanor,' and in light of this fact, my article is limited to educated conjecture resulting from extensive research.

While Tolkien did not provide us with an example of Fëanor's names in translation, we can examine the name of the Maia, Sauron. He is known in the histories as Sauron, and is never commonly referred to as Gorthaur [his Sindarin name], save in the index, and he certainly has no amalgam name as Fëanor did. So in translations such as 'the Eye of Sauron' it seems better that the Sindarin should utilize his Sindarin name, rather than his Quenya name, although he is constantly referred to by the former. Thus, Hen Gorthaur is preferred Sindarin, while Hen Saurono is preferred Quenya. Still one could argue that using Faenor for every translation in Middle-Earth [who Fëanor was apparently known as] would mean using Sauron in the same sense [in both Quenya and Sindarin], but I believe the evidence of a Sindarin name suggests otherwise. Why would the Sindar give Sauron a name in their tongue and not use it? Why would they give Fëanor one? Can it be decided if Fëanor should remain unused wholly in Elvish translations? We may never know.

Due to this ambiguity, which Prof. Tolkien is famous for, it basically comes to a matter of personal preference. It seems to me that Fëanor is best when speaking/reading English, while the authenticity of using his pure Sindarin/Quenya names when they are included in translations, as determined with the Sauron example, is better than the use of mixed names any day. In light of all of these arguments, I think that while it is safe to conclude that Fëanor could be used in both Quenya and Sindarin translations, because Tolkien never really promoted either of his pure names, and because of the errors of scholars, it largely remains a matter of personal judgment.


Questions or Comments? Contact me.

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[06 Aug 2003|08:42pm]

Due to the relative inactivity in the community lately, I thought perhaps I could get some things going by asking some thoughtful questions.

1. Out of every chapter in The Lord of the Rings, which one is the most gripping, most emotional, most beautiful? Give this one some serious thought, I want to see some good answers!

2. Which elf is your ultimate conceptualization of the elves? Why? [All other elves pale in comparison.]

3. What is the most tragic flaw of the elves? You can choose specific elves or even kindreds.

4. Which elf would you want to be and why?

5. Of what kindred would you be? Compare your personality to those of the kindreds. Likes/dislikes etc.
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Costumes for my film: [07 Jun 2003|10:51am]

I thought you might be interested in this:

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Salo's A Elbereth Gilthoniel: A tribute to Tolkien or a hasty translation? [06 Jun 2003|09:58pm]

This song, featured in the FOTR extended edition DVD, originally appeared on Ryszard Derdzinski's web site. I have included the song and translation from the web site here:

The song, translated by David Salo (as sung by Gildor Inglorion’s host):
A Bereth thar-Ennui Aeair!
A Galad ven i reniar
hi 'aladhremmin ennorath.
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
ithil nâ thûl, ithil lîn hen...

Their translation (at Elvish.org):
'O Queen beyond the Western Seas!
O light to us that wander
here [amid the] world [of] woven-trees.
O Gilthoniel! O Elbereth!
clear [?] is breath, clear [?] your [?] eye...'

My translation (which I made a bit more literal than theirs):
Oh Queen beyond Western Seas!
Oh light to the strayers
Here [in] tree-woven Middle-Earth
Oh Varda Star-kindler
The sheen(moon) is breath, the sheen (moon) your eye.

Word by word analysis:

A: interjection meaning O[h]!
Bereth: noun meaning Queen
thar-: prefix meaning across or athwart
Ennui: plural adjective of annui meaning western
Aeair: plural noun of aear meaning Seas
Galad: noun meaning light
ven: possibly lenited form of ben? in the? This should perhaps be ammen?
i: singular article meaning the. Should perhaps be plural in to agree with its noun.
reniar: noun formed from verb renia- meaning [the] wanderers?
hi: lenited adverb (from si) meaning here.
'aladhremmin: mutated plural adjective galadhremmen (e shifts to i for the plural) meaning tree-woven.
ennorath: plural noun meaning central lands (Middle-Earth).
Gilthoniel: the surname of Varda meaning star-kindler.
Elbereth: the Sindarin name of Varda meaning star queen.
ithil: noun meaning the sheen. Had it been capitalized, it would have meant moon.
na: verb meaning to be [is in this case].
thul: noun meaning breath.
lin: pronoun meaning thy [your].
hen: noun meaning eye.

From this, I became dismayed. I realized that David Salo's translation in the last line was lacking in more ways than one. The song they are paying homage to appears in Chapter 3 of FOTR, and they have taken three lines from one stanza, and two from the other:

O Queen beyond the Western Seas!
O Light to us that wander here
Amid the world of woven trees!

Gilthoniel! O Elbereth!
Clear are thy eyes and bright thy breath!

'Clear are thy eyes and bright thy breath.' I thought there had to be a better translation than Salo's, and it turns out there was. Firstly, Salo's translation ithil lin hen means 'the sheen [moon] your eye.' Well, it should be 'eyes,' and this can be done easily by an internal vowel change to 'i.' Thus, 'hin' means 'eyes' and is more correct than 'hen.' From there, I thought there just might be Sindarin words for ‘clear’ and ‘bright.’ Sure enough, ‘lim’ and ‘celair’ were found in numerous places (the Hisweloke Dictionary, attested in the Etymologies, etc.). I offered my translation of the last line then, leaving the rest the same, and I realized that Salo’s line and my line both shared the same amount of syllables, allowing the rhythm of the song to be undisrupted:

A Bereth thar-Ennui Aeair!
A Galad ven i reniar
Hi ‘aladhremmin ennorath.
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
Lim hin lin, ar celair thul lin.


O Queen beyond Western Seas!
O light to the strayers
Here [in] tree-woven Middle-Earth
O Varda Star-kindler
Clear eyes thy, and brilliant (bright) breath thy.


O Queen beyond the Western Seas!
O light to us that wander
here amid the world of woven-trees.
O Gilthoniel! O Elbereth!
Clear are thy eyes and bright thy breath.

Words I added or changed:

lim: adjective meaning clear, sparkling.
hin: plural form of the noun hen meaning eyes.
ar: conjunction meaning and.
celair: adjective meaning brilliant [bright].

Some may argue that ‘ithil’ was a metaphorical reference to the moon’s light (‘Ithil’ being Sindarin for ‘moon’), and this could be true, because Varda (Elbereth) created the stars and the moon resides there (although it was made by Aule and Yavanna, and hallowed by Manwe), but I was still not convinced that Salo did his job. I made a translation which I found to be more metaphorically feasible:

A Bereth thar-Ennui Aeair!
A Galad ven i reniar
Hi ‘aladhremmin ennorath.
A Elbereth Gilthoniel
Elenath* hin lin, ar fain** thul lin.

O Queen beyond the Western Seas!
O light to us that wander
here amid the world of woven-trees.
O Gilthoniel! O Elbereth!
The stars thy eyes, the clouds thy breath.

* elenath: noun meaning the stars of heaven.
** fain: plural of the noun fan meaning clouds.

Am I totally off base here? Let me know what you think about all this!
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[02 Jun 2003|06:54pm]

Who thinks they can translate these into Quenya with correct tense, case, etc.? I don't have any prizes to offer, but it's fun to see who can do it the best. If you're feeling adventurous, transcribe it into a Quenya mode of Tengwar when you're done.

The maiden sat beneath the willow.

Your hair shines like the sun.

My love for you is as deep as the depths of the sea.

I challenge you!
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[20 Apr 2003|02:59pm]

This community has died! If there aren't any posts within the next week, I am going to start eliminating members who have posted nothing. You've been warned.
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They're going to the white tower, beyond the grey havens.. [02 Apr 2003|12:54pm]

[ mood | dorky ]

Hullo all,
I joined not long ago, but have been so busy that I'm behind on my posting. ::waves hi:: I am excited to find other people who are so intrigued by elves and their culture. ^_^!

I'll be all of you around!

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Aiya! [01 Apr 2003|09:29pm]

[ mood | restless ]

Just a quick little message to introduce myself... my Elvish name is Inwë Séregon, and I am enamored with all things Tolkien (particularly the immaculate and enchanting culture of the elves).
Right now I'm in the process of re-reading the Silmarillion, which I hadn't picked up since I was in eighth grade. I also recently received the History of Middle Earth boxed set... I can't wait to peruse it!
Does anyone have any recommendations for good Tolkien resources, particularly about Elvish society?

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Can anyone translate it plz? [13 Mar 2003|09:38pm]

Namarie! Ar nai silme laituva tielye!
I Qualme sin entula. Nai omentielva lartuva oiale!

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Elvish Calligraphy Available [20 Feb 2003|11:35am]

[This advertisement posted with moderator approval, since it's relevant to the community and may interest members. My apologies in advance to those who see it in multiple communities.]

The Elvish Translation Service (http://www.freaknation.com/elvish/) sells hand-crafted Elvish calligraphy, in Quenya and Sindarin (mostly Quenya), written in various styles of tengwar. The catalog of available items includes quotations ancient and modern. Prices for 8½x11" pieces currently range from US$25.00 to $50.00, making them highly affordable gifts.

I can also do custom work, whether for wall decorations, tattoos, wedding rings, or any other use. Rates for custom translation are available on the site's "Custom Order" page.

Visit the Elvish Translation Service today, and nai elen siluva tielyanna ("may a star shine upon your path").
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[14 Feb 2003|09:12am]

so there is no help for my previous question?

i thought you were all tolkien super fans.
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[11 Feb 2003|06:05pm]

so i was just listening to national public radio, and simon tolkien was on, and he was talking about this and that, and then he mentioned that his father has cut him out of the inheartiance(sp)
and that for the past 3 year has not spoken to him.

somone explain this, because i find it really confusing.
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Hobbit help [10 Feb 2003|11:00pm]

[ mood | grateful ]

I know little more of the race of Hobbits than is given in the text of The Lord of the Rings, and while this community is predominantly geared towards the Eldar, I think I have a better chance of receiving a real, fact-based answer here than in most of the other Tolkien communities...thus I plea: I would like to know of the evolution/formation of the hobbits in the Shire, specifically where they migrated from and their relation, if any, to the Stoors east of the Misty Mountains.
(also...using an English to Sindarin dictionary I found at councilofelrond.com I translated the basic links (to elements such as my friends page, my personal info, etc...) into Sindarin...in a main effort to try and teach myself some vocabulry...so if any of you who do actually know a good deal of Sindarin want to check that out please tell me if I'm accurate in my translations :-D
Hannad, Steph

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hello and hi. [07 Feb 2003|01:55am]

hi. i am an elf friend. i think. name's annie. or actually. something along the lines of Eruanne Manveri... been reading tolkien since elementary school, although i've only managed to get through the four main books (hobbit+trilogy). At some point I will get others, but for now i'm focusing on studies. :) goodnight
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